70 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[kortek]

A ten śmig to jest jazda na krawędzi Bo mi się wydaje że jest tam jednak element ześlizgu...
https://www.youtube....h?v=mlbz26hAeWk

ześlizg na 100%! spójrz na ten pióropusz!

[Marcin07]

Chill

Załączone pliki

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[mrgn]

@Sędzia - jeśli nawet wchodzący każdemu do tyłka (bo musi) Goodride nie zachwyca się jazdą z MT to coś jest nie tak. Good woody i inne hamerykańskie medaliony to jest papka marketingowa, nie słyszałem by kiedykolwiek dostała nagrodę firma, która nie reklamuje się u wystawcy tytułu.

Cały czas nie dostałem odpowiedzi na pytanie, a podobno w necie jest wszystko, gdzie jest jakikolwiek film by ktokolwiek jeździł na krawędziach na Magne-Traction? Nie ma, próżnia, Youtube nie ma nic, Vimeo nie ma nic. Tyle lat i nikt nie umie jeździć na krawędziach? Może dlatego:


It's just that I kept hearing people saying you can carve on ice with mag or hold a good edge with mag. But since you're not really carving how can you hold an edge on ice is what I'm thinking/asking?

I've a few friends who ride different boards with Magne-Traction type edges, Rossignol and Jones boards specifically. Most say they love it. They are all soft booters btw. But one of them who was a huge proponent of it when it first came out is now waiting on his new Donek Incline 170 that is definately not mag track. He says he is tired of not having the speed when turning, the board feels like it's slowing down in the turns, and is "grabby" when on edge.

think about how the Mag. Trac. works with the way most soft booters ride. Even when they are "carving" they're still side slipping some. Think about those nodes digging in and how that would feel like significantly more edge hold under those circumstances. Where I think Mag. Trac. is a real advantage is for riders who spend time running their edges down metal rails and box edges. What I've been told is the board sort of settles in to the rail between the nodes so the same, deep spots get duller, while the protruding nodes keep some sort of edge on them.

I've ridden a lib banana rocker. Not a fan, training wheels for rockered boards skidding on hard/icey snowpack imo.
I can't really say how/if it's slower carving because I couldn't get the banana tips to engage in a normal carve but I could spin like a clothes washer and the edge grip between my feet was bomb proof, so it works. The camrock/c2 (haven't tried yet) with a bit of camber under the binding might be better all around.

As a softbooter here in carving country and having tried c2bx with camber and rocker. All I can say is its a crutch for those who can't. Advantage in absolute crud/cut/icy steeps but otherwise there to bring more confidence to the average gaper. Extra confidence means one more idiot to watch out for bombing a run while we are carving back uphill. My softboot friends love it but they can't match a carver turn for turn. Thank you to those that provide the tools needed to do the job right. Let the masses eat steak. I'll take my filet rare...

I have a couple of Lib boards, at least one with Magnetraction. I'm personally not a fan of it.
1. I thought the edge hold sucked compared with what I put on my other boards. It doesn't feel as good, and yeah it's slower.
2. It's damn near impossible to tune correctly due to all of the waves. Lib sells a super short tuning stone, which still has a straight edge, so there's parts of the edge that are un-tunable (the interior curves).
I won't be buying another one. I will look at other boards.

To get into this a bit more I think the issue here may not the edge design but what the turn you’re doing is like and the terrain you are riding. Basically if you are riding a steep gradient and the surface is suspect you’re probably wanting to keep speed down and will be kicking the tail out a fair bit to wash off speed. The other way would be to make long carving turns across the entire width of the run which isn’t always possible in high traffic areas. Regardless of the edges on your board, when you kick the tail out it’s going to slide out if you hit ice, when your edge is set and you’re carving properly the magnetraction really comes into it’s own. Unless it’s that bumpy blue marble looking horror show stuff you shouldn’t slide out with the mag, without it’s a different story.

I've seen the Lib Tech Magne Traction in action. A friend uses one. He likes it a lot. It's a clever design that helps boarders who slide the board down the hill without a lot of edge angle. If you board by weighting and engaging a properly sharpended edge for any edge angle you want, you don't need this sort of set-up. And, it's an expensive board. Personally, I'd recomend a Donek Incline or Wide, which have great edge grip on ice, are custom made and, I believe, cost a lot less.
(...)My only reservation about the Magne Traction is that is has a wavy edge and I wonder how that cuts through the snow of on ice when you are really carving turns. My friend who uses it doesn't carve, but slides around real fast, so he he likes the grip of the extra waves.
The reviews may say that, but it's design lends me to think it's really designed for sliding and not carving on the ice and hardpack. With it's wavy sidecut, "seven serrations per side," as the Lib Tech website says, I can't see this board really carving on ice, like, for instance, on either a PGS or boarderx course. It's more of a compensation tool for a mid-level boarder who wants to tackle more difficult terrain but doesn't really have the technique to lock a normal edge into a genuine carve. By all means, though, demo it and buy it if you like it. Like I said, my friend has one and swears by it. He's a good boarder, but a slider, not a carver, unable to go across the fall line on steep hills because he slides downhill in a straight line, alternating edge-to-edge.

I would say it definitely grips more on ice. No doubt about that. The downside? It's also slower whenever you carve at all due to that grip.
MTX definitely allows me to ride more "lazily" on hardpack if that makes sense.
i liked magnetraction, it really does give you a ton more grip... but i dunno, the couple times i've been on it, it's almost too much grip. sort of hurts my ankles

i find it to help edge hold when on groomers of most kinds.. normal, slushy, firm, but NOT icy. when its actually ice, i end up feeling more sketchy. how is your edge truly going to get all the way deep into the ice for the shallower parts of mtx to touch as well? thats what im feeling. i have felt much more secure with a normal edge on actual ice than with mtx.

just my opinion.. im sure not everyone feels that way. ive just noticed lately that in spots where its actually ice (definitely a different between firm hardpack and true ice), its like it wants to sketch out. ice is pretty hard. maybe if i weighed 200 pounds or more, i could push the mtx deeper in there, but its not happening at 155+gear.

Snowboards are snowboards.
Hooky is just Hokey.
Magnetraction sucks ass, by the way. You can't ride park with it and you can't ride steeps/chutes/moguls. It's only for beginners on green runs.

Everyone is different and this is my take on ice regardless of what type of board you ride. When I ride at night/day and hit ice I ride it out flat. I would say the most common mistake when riding ice is trying to turn? If you hit it heelside you risk washing out on your ass and toeside you are asking to come down on your chin. You make the call. I ride a traditional cambered board on ice 90% of the time. My edges have to be sharpen almost everytime I ride due to burrs/dulling of my edges. If you have a sharp edge you should be able to slice threw ice period. If you are lazy and neglect your edges then you are asking for problems. It really is like owning a car and not completing the oil change. I think mtx vs. a sharp edge is irrelavant and I have demoed a mtx board. I did not notice a large difference in how it held an edge on ice but this is my opinion.

MTX is absolutely no more helpful than a well tuned radial edge. however, i think the difference is that you can be lazier about maintenance with the mag. rode andy's banana in montreal two weeks ago, and he hasn't tuned it ever - so a season and a half. it still gripped as well as a fairly well tuned "normal" edge. but on ice, no, i think it's hooey.

i 110% disagree that detuning mtx still leaves you with the same grip as sharp edges, especially on ice. you are NOT going to have good edge hold with detuned edges on ice, period, unless you weigh a lot and can actually smash the mtx waves down into the ice to force it to grip. ive ridden a few mtx boards now and based on my personal experience (emphasis on my personal experience) i find it to make things worse if anything. catchy and inconsistent with full mtx, worse on ice, unnnatural carving. with my lando i dont feel the inconsistency, probably because its the mellow version, but i do notice that it feels sketchier on actual ice. and we ARE talking about ICE, right? not just firm snow. real ice fucking sucks. if you ride that, huge, huge vibes to you.

Magnetraction from Lib Tech expands horizons and they also make great boards of all types.
As far as why snowboards have such short radiuses, it relates in part to the width of the board. Basically, leave it to the manufacturers. A modern board with, say, a 21m radius would definitely not leave you in your happy place.

While I have two friends that swear by lib tech magnetraction and say that won't ride anything else, my own experiences have been disappointing. I live in the NE and ride primarily in VT. My current set up pairs a Burton Custom (2010, I think) with Cartel bindings. Last year I spent a week in South Lake Tahoe riding and spent 3 days on a lib tech board wih magnetraction. It snowed about a foot each day so I can't speak to the edging capabilities but I can say that the board felt very heavy and cumbersome for the size. Unresponsive, slow to turn, deliberate. Especially compared to the Custom. I eventually traded it for aa quicker, mmore responsive board. Out in the trees is the last place you want to be worries about agility.

i often found the MTX taking control of the turn, making it too hooky
I also found then when MTX lets go, you really slide out, whereas on the Nidecker/Yes you are able to catch it.”
EXACTLY. sometimes it would randomly grip and literally pull me through part of the arc, and sometimes it would just skip out for no apparent reason. never has ever happened to me on any other board as long as ive been riding. im not a fan of MTX. that being said, i thought the mellow MTX on the phoenix shape was fine. didnt really feel like full/regular MTX on all the other mervins ive tried out, but i still prefer a regular sidecut.
cant we just have straight up radial sidecuts with sharp edges again? those ones are always my favorite.

i own a lib tech skate banana (a gift after someone jacked my horrorscope) and it has maganatraction. i am not a fan of it at all. as far as carving goes, its rocky as shit and is just all around uncomfortable. dont trust mervin.

I have Rossi 1 Mag with it but I cant tell the diff since when Im in softies Im sliding on purpose.
From Rossi site, "Rossi's exclusive Magne- Traction 5S features 50% smaller Mag bumps for total edge control with a more forgiving feel."
not sure what that tells us

What they said, including that it will be interesting to hear what those who actually build boards say.

My take...
If you think about decambered noses on race boards, they are there (as per the Kessler patent), to ensure you have an even pressure distribution along the entire edge in contact with the snow. Previous nose/ tail designs didn't work that way, resulting in edge contact pressure which was uneven. The effect of uneven edge pressure is that where the pressure is greater the board is more likely to break away. So for a race board ridden by a skilled rider, you want the pressure evenly distributed along all the edge, so that it breaks away at the highest force possible. Still with me?
Now look at Magne Traction. I'm not sure of the precise geometry, but you're increasing pressure (to help poor riders) where the edge sticks out, and reducing it where it crinkles in. So in practice you're increasing the point load where the edge is actually in full contact with the snow... therefore it will break away quicker than a straight race board edge. Which presumably is why race boards don't have crinkly edges.
I've ridden Magne Traction in powder and it's irrelevant there. I've no memory of being overtaken by anyone riding it on piste. Probably it works for park riders, who abuse traditional edges for obvious reasons.

If you think about hard ice, which you'll find on a race course but not many places most people are likely to ride, it's easier to visualise. A crinkle-cut edge would increase the pressure on the points which were in full contact, whilst reducing it on the points which were not.

Increasing pressure (by reducing the effective contact length) may help beginners who have trouble pressuring the edge. For experienced riders that's no issue, and in those conditions you actually want to reduce the pressure you putting on the surface, so you don't break out of the turn.

Summary: for good riders with sharp edges, it provides less grip.

Well I have decided to get rid of my 2012 Attack Banana as soon as I get some more cash - I am confident in my decision. I found this review about its poor carving ability at high speed. I tried performing high speed carves behind my bud who is on a Travis Rice Pro and I had to dial it back big time - LAZY SUNDAY CARVES BIG TIME. I constantly felt like I was going to wash out at higher speeds - say above 60km/h. It had not snowed for a week and the snow was concrete hard pack. One thing I should note is that I didn't seem to have the same problem in the past with light snowfall or springlike conditions. This review was on a site called Agnarchy:
The Attack Banana’s medium flex gave it just enough responsiveness to handle pretty well on groomers, where it excelled at low- to medium speed carves, quick enough edge-to-edge for short radius turns and comfortable also on the more drawn out lazy Sunday carves. Although conditions were pretty close to ideal for board tests this day, the Attack Banana did fold on me under pressure on aggressive turns/carves. Lib’s magnetraction performs as expected and gives you some added “bite” in the hardpack.


Sometimes on hardpack on the slopes it sticks a little and the turn won't initiate but it's probably me being a little lazy. Maybe a lot of the riders on Magna don't notice it because they don't know hot to make a carved turn on a snowboard but can bust a frontside boardslide down a 40 foot kinked rail like no big deal..?? it amazes me

Over all board feel, the board inspires confidence to go bigger and is forgiving enough even being with it being as stiff as the board is. Most stiff boards seem to tire the rider out quicker but not this board. I'm comparing it against my Rome Mod when it comes to this. As fast as my Mod is the stiffness beats up my legs in chop. The TRS feels at home in chop, pow, groomers, and even in the trees too. Gives you the feeling that this board wants to charge all the time. But I can feel the performance if this board go down when ridden at slower speeds. So I would have to say that the TRS is not a beginner friendly board in any way. At slower speeds the edges feel like they drag and turn initiation isn't as sharp. Once you've got this bad boy at speed it feels like your riding a mountain destroying cruise missile.

MTX is hit or miss. Either people absolutely love it, or they absolutely hate it. I happen to be one that absolutely hates it. Sure, it makes riding on ice easier, but in CO, it's just not needed IMO and it changes the way the board carves.

[Ypsi]

Maciek masz jakieś źródło tego eseju, czy sam wymyśliłeś?
...
Tak jak pisali chłopaki.. nagle Goodride, który chyba był jakąś wyrocznią dla Morgana, stał się be... jakoś nie widzę tam Voelkl'i.

[msolczak]

Nie to bym skakał do oczu.. Ale ponowię swoje pytanie z innego wątku do mrgna. Wspomniałeś, że jeździłeś na kilku deskach z MT. Na czym jeszcze jeździłeś poza JL z MT i jakie były Twoje odczucia w przypadku tych pozostałych desek?

[md.sign]

"MTX is hit or miss. Either people absolutely love it, or they absolutely hate it"
z ostatniego akapitu wielkiej księgi cytatów morgana.

i na tym można by skończyć tę coraz durniejszą dyskusję...

[Jancio Wodnik]

podsumowując:

jeden woli blondynki, drugi brunetki

i po to jest TD żeby ludzie na miejscu sprawdzili która DLA NICH jest lepsza

a reszta jak dla mnie to marketingowy bełkot.

Nie mam pojecia jak zbudowane są deski na których jeżdże... one poprostu mi podeszły

pzdr

JW


ps

Morgan..... mozesz sie tylko ze mna zgodzić... kolejnego elaboratu nie zdzierże

[mrgn]

Radek, odpowiem cytatem cytatu

"MTX is hit or miss. Either people absolutely love it, or they absolutely hate it"
z ostatniego akapitu wielkiej księgi cytatów morgana.

i na tym można by skończyć tę coraz durniejszą dyskusję...

Teksty wprowadzające Was w błąd z opisów Marka S. zostaną usunięte odgórnie, oficjalnymi metodami.

Użytkownik mrgn edytował ten post 25 November 2014 - 12:07

[Marek S.]

Lib Tech Skate Banana do sezonu 12/13 włącznie miała ślizg spiekany, Tutaj akurat 2 oferty z zagranicy:
http://www.47degreen...black-1213.html
http://surfinsel.at/...t51phck4dc34qh5

Następnie Lib Tech zaczął w niej robić ślizg TNT, jest to wersja tłoczonego ślizgu z podwójną warstwą fluorową. Niestety moim niedopatrzeniem było wzięcię TNT za spieka ,gdzie jest to ich wersja tłoczonego i tutaj dokładne info będę jeszcze miał na czym polega ta podwójna wersja fluoru. Przeoczyłem tą techniczną zmianę i za to przepraszam.

Co do opisów np "deklasują na lodzie" to oczywiście nie zostaną zmienione, jak widać za granicą opisy są podobne. Jeśli ktoś ma zamiar podać do sądu "deklasację na lodzie" to droga wolna.
Odchodząc od tematu czy Morgan piszesz do Persila żeby zmienili opis proszku twierdzący,że pierze najlepiej i inne proszki nie mają szans.? Oczywiście jest to pytanie retoryczne, ponieważ dyskusja z Maćkiem jest dość ciężka.

Użytkownik Marek S. edytował ten post 25 November 2014 - 12:35

[Krzysiek A]

Z nieuczciwą konkurencją z wieloletnim procederem fałszowania opisów produktów. Ze spiekiem i pełnym rdzeniem

Wieloletnim... czyli aż jeden sezon, Marek się pomylił wszystko poprawił i wyprostował... Tak was to boli, że mu się dobrze te deski sprzedają ?

[Marcin07]

@Krzysiek A - Wieloletnim - na pewno byly to 2 sezony ten i poprzedni.
natknąlem się na opisy Liba z listopada 2012 z opisem ślizgu w SB "TNT Base - spiekany, bardzo szybki"
Marku przepraszaj klientów, szczególnie tych którzy kupowali DC z permanentnie przez 3 lata ściemnionymi opisami ślizgów i rdzeni.

[Krzysiek A]

Przepraszaj nie nas a klientów, szczególnie tych którzy kupowali DC z permanentnie przez 3 lata ściemnionymi opisami.

Tylko na tym forum są użytkownicy DC oraz Mervina i nie widze ich wpisów, że ktoś czuje się oszukany... Widzę tylko Morgana i Marcina którzy chcą przedstawić swojego konkurenta w jak najgorszym świetle, napisać że produkt jest najgorszy tylko po to, żeby uzyskać część jego klientów... a co się dzieje? produkt sam się broni, użytkownicy go bronią a wy zaczynanie straszyć

[Marcin07]

Wieloletnim... czyli aż jeden sezon, Marek się pomylił wszystko poprawił i wyprostował... Tak was to boli, że mu się dobrze te deski sprzedają ?

To akurat tyczy się kilku modeli DC. No jeśli promuje się na ściemie - wciskając wióry na tłoku za 1200 i twierdząc że to spiek na pełnym rdzeniu to trudno konkurować. Nie widzisz tego Krzysztofie? Rozumiem że pracujecie pod tym samym adresem na Puławskiej więc trudno Cię będzie przekonać. Z tej perspektywy zwykła uczciwość może wyglądać inaczej.

[Marek S.]

Ode mnie nigdy nie wyszedł zły opis DC. Jeśli ktoś w Focusie ma napisane,że to czyste drewno to jest to kwestia sklepu nie moja.
Może już mnie Marcin podaj do sądu i sprawa będzie czysta.

[Jancio Wodnik]

Dobra... bo zaczyna sie znowu pyskowka a ja juz czuje zapach popcornu ktory robią pozostali forumowicze.

Temat był przewałkowany.

Podobno nabrało to oficjalnego kształtu - więc proponuje poczekać na tego wyniki.

A teraz - zluzujcie

pzdr

JW

[Krzysiek A]

To akurat tyczy się kilku modeli DC. No jeśli promuje się na ściemie - wciskając wióry na tłoku za 1200 i twierdząc że to spiek na pełnym rdzeniu to trudno konkurować. Nie widzisz tego Krzysztofie? Rozumiem że pracujecie pod tym samym adresem na Puławskiej więc trudno Cię będzie przekonać. Z tej perspektywy zwykła uczciwość może wyglądać inaczej.

Sam pracowałem kiedyś w sklepie i sprzedawałem deski DC więc od zawsze było wiadomo ze to jest astro core czyli nie pełny rdzeń drewniany. Takie szkolenia przeprowadzał Marek i takie opisy dostarczał. Jeżeli jakiś sklep sobie napisał że to rdzeń drewniany to juz wina konkretnego sklepu...

Widzisz ten sam adres inne firmy inni właściciele wiec jak dla mnie konkurencja która nie musi sie straszyć

[Jancio Wodnik]

prooOOOOSZEEEE

pzdr

JW

[Marek S.]

Mam opisy DC na moim komputerze, wszystko zgodne z prawdą. Jeśli jakiś sklep sobie robi inny opis to nie jest to moja wina.
W sumie teraz ja chętnie bym coś odpisał a propos 2 Panów M,ale wolę przekazać na żywo. Świat jest mały, wszyscy jesteś jedną wielką snowboardową rodziną.

[Jancio Wodnik]

jestem krwa niewidzialny ....

[Marcin07]

Więc wszystkie sklepy sobie same powieliły ten sam opis.. c'man! Nie bądźmy dziećmi. Też mam znajomych w sklepach i wiem skąd dostali opisy (jak co roku)
Przecież nikomu sie nie chce kombinować zdjęć ani opisow. To dostarcza agent dystrybutor.
Fascynujące jest to jak bardzo brniecie w zaparte
Dobra... z mojej strony to koniec kopania leżącego!